Ep. 1: Black Lives Matter, with Captain Matthew Gillespie
To start this season, and podcast, we want to address the question: Why should we care about black lives, if black people don’t care about black lives?
Last week, an hour before the Breonna Taylor Verdict was announced, Brandon Chastang sat down with Captain Matthew Gillespie of the 18th District in West Philly. Captain Gillespie addresses the problems of racism and violence within the police force and how he is partnering with the community to come up with real solutions.
Self Inventory is a podcast produced by Brandon Chastang and Studio D Podcast Production. You can listen anywhere you get your podcasts. If you’d like to support the show, please subscribe, leave a review, and tell everyone you know about Self Inventory.
Transcript:
Brandon Chastang: [00:00:00] This is Brandon Chastang. And I am your host of Self-Inventory. You know, I had a special guest on the show, Captain Gillespie, shout out to him for coming through and before, you know, I'll let you guys listen to this amazing interview. I just wanted to just, you know, touch on this Brianna Telus case and how I feel about it.
All right. So the charges is in, right. And I'm a little upset about what's going on for the Briana case, the Brianna Telus case in the state of Kentucky, you're able to bear arms and it's also legal to stand your ground. So allegedly the cops were serving a warrant. Not full Brianna's teller, new boyfriend, but they were serving a warrant for Brianna's tele old boyfriend.
Okay. So let's get that clear allegedly, right? Because allegedly the police never announced themselves. Right. They never announced themselves. And from my understanding, it's illegal for police offices to serve a warrant and plain clothes, but let's bring this back again. They never announced who they were opened up is the police.
We have a warrant for so-and-so that was never announced, allegedly. So the new boyfriend Brianna's Stella new boyfriend. He had a firearm, illegal laws, firearm. Right. And he thought they were intruders and he opened fire. Like anybody would do put sect in their home protecting their family. You will do the same thing.
Or at least I think you would. I would. Now this is where the plot gets sticking. Brianna teller body. Was left in a, in a house for 24 hours. This is before I get to the charges. Y'all this giving you guys the story. The mother tried to go to the house. They didn't let her in the house. They told her. The police officers allegedly told her that Brianna was at the hospital.
They go back, they go to the hospital, the hospital say, Brianna's not there. None of the, none of the hospitals are saying that Brianna is there. So they go back to the house. The mother goes back to the house. They didn't let her in. She wasn't able to get in the house until the very next day. Unbelievable on top of that, let's get to the charges out of three police officers.
Only one police officer was charged. The other two police officers weren't charged at all. And guess what? The charges were reckless endangerment was just the serve. No. It's too many loopholes inside this case for a person to be one person out of three people let alone that both for a person to be charged with reckless and dangerous, but this is the life that we live in in America.
And this is why I tell everybody, man, it's time for a Self-Inventory. So now let's tune into the first episode of Self-Inventory where my special guests, Captain Gillespie. A Self-Inventory report is the type of psychological tests and which a person fills out a survey about personal interests, values, sense, sums behaviors and traits.
Self-Inventories are different from tests and that there is no objective, correct answer. Self-Inventory is the podcast. Well, we investigate the issues of society that don't seem to have any correct answer. Brandon Chastang, blends together, history lessons, current events, and talk with people of all backgrounds to provide us as a society with a Self-Inventory in order to move forward. We need to look at where we've been and where we are now. It's time for a Self-Inventory.
Welcome to season one episode, one of Self-Inventory podcasts. I am your host, Brandon Chastang, AKA B McFly. And yes, B McFly stands for being motivated. The comes from loving yourself, man, you got to love yourself. I love yourself. You I'm super excited, man. This is my first, first, first, first, first, first podcast.
And I have a special guest. This guest right here is my brother. You know, he always come through for me, man. Like he always come through, I want to give a warm welcome, a warm welcome to Captain Matthew Gillespie. He is the Captain of the 18th district, Philadelphia police department, man so West Philly in the house.
What's up. Cap was good, man.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:05:36] B McFly. So thank you. Number one, this is the first episode. It is honestly touching to be here on the first episode, considering what's going on, literally around the world. And I know we have a lot to talk about. So we've gone back almost two years now. Honestly, man, I just appreciate you
Brandon Chastang: [00:05:54] I aprpeciate you more, man.
Yo, listen, you always coming through for me. So let's get to it.Cap listen. Right? What made you want to become a police officer? And how long have you been a police officer?
Captain Gillepsie: [00:06:06] That's a good one. This is my 18th year. This is my 18th year. You know, you hear a lot of officers say, Oh my family, my father, my uncle, my father was a policeman.
He didn't talk too much about it to be quite honest. He never pushed me in that direction. We didn't have, a very close relationship, unfortunately, especially at the end of his life. So what drove me to it really was, I really wanted to help people, honestly, and I wasn't sure how I was going to do it.
I struggled in school a little bit. I didn't have the grades or the degrees to get involved, but I wanted to help people. And I knew that the department had ways to do that. And you know, I, I signed up, I took the test and here I am, 18 years later.
Brandon Chastang: [00:06:52] Wow. Have you always. So are you from Philly?
Captain Gillepsie: [00:06:55] I'm from Philly, man, I lived, I spent a lot of time in West Mount Airy, close to Germantown, Lawndale area, West Oak Lane, and a short time in Fox Chase the Northeast.
It wasn't for me. But now I do live in Philadelphia. I live in Roxborough.
Brandon Chastang: [00:07:13] Okay. Set up the Roxborough, man. I love Roxborough. You've always worked in a predominantly black community, right?
Captain Gillepsie: [00:07:21] Yeah. So now I started in the Kensington area, predominantly Hispanic, but I would say yes. I mean the short answer, I haven't worked in a predominantly white area.
Brandon Chastang: [00:07:31] How did that make you feel as a white man and a police officer?
Captain Gillepsie: [00:07:37] A hundred percent truth. It never made me feel any different when I grew up, I grew up literally around African-American Hispanic, Asian, gay. I mean, everybody, you know, my mom will hopefully, and I know she will, she'll listen to this. She'll be very proud of that fact.
So. I say this story, and I think you've heard it, you know, where I felt a little, I took a step back was, was honestly was in the police Academy itself where the entire room with the exception of one or two were mostly white. So that was, it was almost a reverse. I had, I come into a situation I'm like, damn, and everybody's white, you know?
But we have done a great job, but diversifying our department still have a long ways to go.
Brandon Chastang: [00:08:20] Wow. So. You said 18 years, right? During your 18 years of being a police officer. And now, Captain, have you ever witnessed racism and police brutality?
Captain Gillepsie: [00:08:36] That's a great question. I believe one time when I was officer, I heard somebody use the N word a cop, but it was a, it was a, we were basically on a block.
It was all out fight and I heard it and I thought it was a police officer, but I really have not heard that or experienced that because I made it very clear, especially as a supervisor that I don't tolerate that shit. Right. Have I heard it off duty and people talking that nonsense? Yeah, I have. And then that's where I disassociate myself.
Have I seen officers use excessive force in certain circumstances, maybe I would say so probably, to the point where it, it was something criminal, I'm not sure that's up for the internal affairs investigators. but I have always done the right thing, honestly, you know what I mean?
Brandon Chastang: [00:09:31] And you know, I believe that me personally.
I believe that,
I
Captain Gillepsie: [00:09:37] don't mean to interrupt. That's not to say it doesn't go on, but we know that this, this things are
Brandon Chastang: [00:09:42] problems.
No, these things, these things go, and this is why I brought you onto the Self-Inventory because I know that you're going to be authentic with your answers. It's deep because you know, police officers, we tend to think that you guys live by a code.
Like, you know, what's the oath don't listen, don't put your, your, your co-officers down. Don't tell on them. And just like everybody else, everybody lives by a code. Not if you're doing something good or bad, it's always cold and ethics. Yeah. Right. My question is. What does Black Lives Matter to you and your department?
When, because, you know, we deal with so much racism today. We dealt with so much police brutality. We dealt with so much how the homicides and things of that nature. When you deal with black people in our community, what does Black Lives Matter to you? And how does the system view black people?
Captain Gillepsie: [00:10:47] Wow. I mean, that's, that is a deep, deep, complex question, you know, in terms of the department, I don't know if I can answer it for the department.
You know, it might be a question for commissioner outlaw or the executive staff, but, but I think for me, it's important to answer that because honestly, you know, I'm going to digress a little bit. I'm in charge of 200 police officers, right? You know, so, you know, I set the tone for them really, and the supervisor, you know, for me, it let's be real.
I have an undergrad, your degree in history. I love American history. Part of it is because you have to examine the deep, bad shit that went on to fix it. so for Black Lives Matter to me means that, We have to acknowledge really not some, not a little bit all of the issues or concerns that the African-American community, whether it be slavery, whether it be reparations.
And what does that mean? Whether it be police, community relations, whether it be really on the, the. You know, the officer talk rude to me yesterday, you know, this, the full spectrum of a cop is ignorant to me or the, the issue that this country really was built on 400 years of let's be honest, free labor, you know?
So I really try to bring an open mindset every day. Even if I don't agree with an issue, even if I take a smallest, you say, listen, I watched the body camera footage. I don't think the officer was, was rude. But if you feel that way, I'm going to empathize with you. I think empathy is part of that answer.
Okay. like you and I, we don't have to agree all the time, but we empathize with each other
Brandon Chastang: [00:12:27] Right. In that. And I'm happy that you said that because I want to let people know right. Black Lives Matter is because I hear a lot of police officers. I had a lot of people, period, but forget police officers. I had a lot of people say, well, how does Black Lives Matter when it don't matter to black people?
And I want people to understand this right. Black people are not taught to hate black people. Black people were not taught to hate white people, the homicide rate or the homicides. Oh, it's different for Black Lives Matter. You you're dealing with the economy deal with poor people,
Captain Gillepsie: [00:13:07] educational,
Brandon Chastang: [00:13:08] educational issues, trauma problems, abuse, drug addiction.
Right? So these things where you're in a poor community, These are the things that's going to happen. Black Lives Matter means that for those who are racist, for those who are white supremacy, for those who feel like black people don't matter. That's what Black Lives Matter. So when people say, well, You know, you have people, you have black people killing each other.
So why does it matter? It don't matter to them. It's the separation. It's a difference.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:13:45] Yeah. I mean, I, I kind of want to expand on that a little bit, you know, cause I go back to that issue when I was a young officer and I heard the N word. Right. and I'm like, cause I was just removed from, you know, my diverse neighborhood and upbringing and I'm like, and to be honest, I'd never heard the term in that context.
I didn't, because everybody got along. Right. So that kind of threw me off. So that, that is an example. If it was an officer and I think it was of, I would say. Out and out racism, you know, blatant, then we have bias, you know, like a bias thing, you know, you know, an example I use is maybe, you know, maybe I'm a new officer of whatever, religion, whatever sex, and I'm not from Philadelphia.
And I grew up in a certain place and you know, where I grew up, this is how things were. So I've kind of bring that bias into West Philly. And I have seen that with the young officers. They're not malicious, but they're like, well, where I grew up, we did things like this. And you have to really train. And one of the things I do is, especially with the foot beat cops, I don't, you know, I do care about what they do in an eight hours.
You know, are they enforcing? Are they checking businesses? I get them once a week. Give me somebody that you got in contact with. Give me somebody's phone number that you ate. I'd rather you tell me I was eating dinner at the block captain's house. And I've done that. I've taken officers that were white and said, Hey, listen, I'm just not feeling your vibe.
So you're going to come with me to 5700 Christian and eat dinner with grandma.
Brandon Chastang: [00:15:12] That's deep.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:15:13] And that, and that might be the first time they even heard the word soul food. You know, but it wasn't a malicious bias. It was just kind of where they grew up. So the difference and there's a difference
Brandon Chastang: [00:15:25] That comes to my next question.
A lot of police officers are faced with trauma too. Yes. And for you to have mental health issues, because both parties have mental health issues. You have the people, you have the regular citizens inside the black community with mental health issues. Right. And I think we felt to forget that some of the police officers have mental health issues as well.
And you're carrying a gun. How do. How do you guys treat that type of trauma with the police officer? One probably grew up racist or probably grew up with mental health issues and they carried a gun and they dealt with other people with mental health issues. How do you treat that.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:16:14] So, I mean, I, I do want to say the first thing is from my experience and what I do believe most officers, the overwhelmingly majority are not like that, but I do have to say that, but yeah.
It doesn't matter if it's one out of 6,000 or it's a thousand out of 6,000, we'd just have to deal with the issue. And the perception is a big part of that too. We do. I have a fairly decent job, a pretty good job of, you know, he gets involved in a shooting. It's a traumatic event for them, for the people involved the family of the, the people involved with the officers and the, the person that might've been shot by the cop.
We do a lot of followup, mental health check on you. What I think we're doing now, and I think is important is, you know, the, the officer that responds to the say somebody gets shot, right? 60th and market. They get shot. The officer responds, that's traumatic. We didn't necessarily have a thing in place for that trauma that you and I have seen kind of officers get desensitized, where like they may see a shooting again and again and again, and it almost comes to the point where they're not like.
That's somebody's child. I constantly tell them, you know, the person who he may not, or she may not think that they're valuable, but they're mom, their aunt, their child, or neighbor thinks they're valuable. So I think we could do a better job of day to day trauma treating. If that makes sense, you were a part of that, right?
You come, you talk to the cops, you you're very active on social media. A lot of my officers, to be honest, I have them follow you for some of your messages, whether it be sober messaging or mental health messaging. But I think policing across the country could do a better job of the daily interactions.
Right? It's it's traumatic to go into somebody's home during a domestic violence situation. We just leave. Right. We leave. Right. We give all the resources to the parties involved, but the cops leave and then maybe they go home and get involved in something.
Brandon Chastang: [00:18:14] And I just, for the police officers that are tuned in, right.
I just want you to understand that you're not perfect.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:18:24] No.
Brandon Chastang: [00:18:25] And it's things that's going on with you. Like a lot of people feel like I know growing up, we used to say something like. Yo, the police officer used to get bullied. The police officers don't have a good family. They probably go through issues of marriage issues, girlfriend issues, and they want to take it out on people outside.
And that's trauma. That's not that's drama, but that's mental health issues
Captain Gillepsie: [00:18:55] and that's listen to your a hundred percent. Right. But I've also seen those same officers handle such under that personal trauma, personal stress handle things, whether it be just a simple problem solving issue or a violent crime issue or a deescalating issue, you know, they're, they have expressed so much personal trauma and then they come to work and they just operate beautifully.
Brandon Chastang: [00:19:19] Okay. I mean, yeah, I've seen that done on both parties,
Captain Gillepsie: [00:19:23] but like I said, whether it's one officer that's acting inappropriate or a thousand, we have to deal with it.
Brandon Chastang: [00:19:28] Accordingly
Captain Gillepsie: [00:19:29] We do
Brandon Chastang: [00:19:31] Now, 2020 has been a crazy year. So far. I'm talking about Philadelphia probably has the hot, the second highest homicides in America, behind Chicago.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:19:48] And let's get even deeper. So West and Southwest Philly are suffering the most in the city of Philadelphia.
Brandon Chastang: [00:19:55] I live in Southwest Philadelphia. I live in a heart of drama. I live in the heart of crime homicides. You know, I don't know what it's going to take for us to bridge the gap. I don't know what it's going to take for us to be on the same accord.
The one thing that I've noticed. I noticed that when a police officer get killed in a line of duty, a lot of police officers are showing their sympathy. They showing their gratitude for the police officer. What about discrepancies? And I felt like I could say this because. I, one of the people that's want to bridge the gap between citizens and police officers.
What Breonna Taylor and George Floyd got killed burdened. We didn't see a lot of police officers like, yo, this is bad. Say something. But not a lot. And I was a little upset with that because it's like, I felt like if it was the opposite, police officers would be like, yo, RIP to officer so-and-so. So he got killed in the line of duty, but for Breonna Taylor and George Florida, just to name a couple, it wasn't like that.
Can you explain to the viewers why. It wasn't or say, it was perceived like it wasn't those sympathy behind that.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:21:42] So, you know, I'm going to disagree a little bit again, and we agree to disagree. you know, I think that officers are a little cautious sometimes because you know, there's investigations to size of this and, you know, officers are, may not want to speak out about, without knowing all the facts of the case, lack of better term. and I'm not saying that that's right wrong or indifferent. It's just part of the thing. I personally have seen a lot of officers speak out, whether it's social media at the district, at the town halls, at the communities, the news media has to play a part in that the news media has to kind of report those things and I'm not sure if that was done or wasn't done. but you know, it's just a, it's a tough thing to answer. Just, you know, Right here now like that, you know, I, I can't give you a straight answer. You know, I know that most of the officers, the 200 that I command, overwhelmingly just have sympathy for the situation.
I haven't met one officer that says what happened to George Floyd or Breonna Taylor was, was right. Was they've all said is horrible. We've talked about it at roll calls, community meetings. I see officers on social media posting, but in terms of like an overwhelming departmental statement, you know, I know commissioner outlaw has put some things out, but I do think you're right.
I think that there is instances where police, can we talk about transparency? Right. I think police could be more, you know, what the word be kind of just. Say what they feel. I know a lot of people feel things, but this has got to come out and say it. That makes sense. you know, but I, I do believe that the officers overwhelmingly have the empathy and sympathy for, especially those two individuals.
Brandon Chastang: [00:23:38] Yeah. I, you know, I, I really, I really felt bad about, I did see a lot of police officers. I mean, I see some police officers really say, you know, this is a bad thing. Yeah. You know? wow. Big, because we're still human beings at the end of the day.
But like I said before, like I felt like I was, you know, obligated to, if I'm going to. I gotta be real about both, both sides
Captain Gillepsie: [00:24:10] and, and the only way to fix this. And we may not ever fix it totally, but bridge the gap a little bit to make that bridge a little shorter. And I really just believe it. You have to talk as open and honest about the problems, right.
You know, whether the real interpreted, whatever, you just have to say this, this is how I feel, right. This is how I feel. And I don't have to agree with you, but. But I agree with you a lot. We just have to talk about it and that's for me and I'll leave it for a later time to show that's the crust of all this.
We gotta get more people at the table just to sit down and talk.
Brandon Chastang: [00:24:41] So, so w when you say, get more people at the table and now talk, right. What have the 8 I know. Yeah, but I want the viewers and the listeners to hear what have you guys done in the 18th district to help change the community? And what are you guys doing?
Captain Gillepsie: [00:25:08] You know, I would say in my 18 year career, the stuff that Sergeant Johnson and they'd like did, we'll say the community relations team has done
Brandon Chastang: [00:25:17] Sergeant Johnson,
Captain Gillepsie: [00:25:18] Spector Wood
Brandon Chastang: [00:25:19] Spector Wood
Captain Gillepsie: [00:25:20] Probably listening.
That's the stuff I'm most proud of. So if I could back up. I first got to the 18th district, long story short four young men lost their lives to gun violence in about a week, along 50th and Baltimore over nonsense.
Really. And when I met with the grandmother of one, because I looked at his criminal record and I said, wow, you know, he's he dropped out of school and he, he had a drug charge and she opened my eyes to something. She said he got a drug charge. He was Upstate road. And because he was Upstate Road and couldn't make bail, he got, he failed out. He got kicked out of school. So because he got kicked out of school, when he got out of jail, he tried to go back to the Philadelphia public school system and the, you know, the bureaucracy of it and being a young person. You're not really sure how to navigate that. He couldn't get back in. He couldn't get his high school diploma.
He ended up then turning to the streets a little bit and he wasn't in the streets that long before this tragedy happened to him. So what we did, one of the things we did is we partnered with a nonprofit OYC. Originally it was going to be 10 young people. We went to Sayre recreation center.
Shout out to the Sayre people
Brandon Chastang: [00:26:34] I used to teach at sayre.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:26:38] And they provided us the space and we opened up an advertised ourselves for a GED diploma program, open to anybody that wanted to help get their lives together. Because you talk about employment where you can't get gainful useful employment, unless you have the right education.
We thought about 10 people were going to show up. I think about 75 showed up and over 50 finished the program. So
Brandon Chastang: [00:27:03] Those are great numbers.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:27:05] So that I'm very proud of. you know, and we went out into the community and said, what do you guys need? And it was the young people that said, listen, I know there's programs out there and stuff, but to get on the L right, to go down in another part of the city that I'm not from it's, it's dangerous.
We don't have a program out here. So we, we did that. We ran a basketball clinic, which you came to, you know, what we try to do with stuff like that is do them during the times that are most high risk. So the Cobbs Creek recreation center, Friday nights, we run a basketball clinic. Drexel University came out.
You've been there a bunch of times. I think it was maybe 10. And then when it stopped cause of COVID we had over 50 kids come, you know,
Brandon Chastang: [00:27:46] COVID put a big stop
Captain Gillepsie: [00:27:48] I do have to give a really good shout out to the schools, boys, Latin Sayre, West Philly. and you got us. Involved mentoring programs. You know, I remember the first one where I said, listen, we've got to get the cops.
I don't mean just the community relations office. And they do a great job. I'm talking about the ones on the street that are chasing people, very active officers, because I want these young people to see these cops in different light. And I want the cops to see these kids in a different light hanging on the corner it doesn't make you a drug dealer.
Brandon Chastang: [00:28:20] Correct.
That's what I mean, you know, a lot of people felt like, like I even chill on the corner, you know, it's a, it's a sanctuary. Like you just chill it, talk it, some people.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:28:32] But the flip side to that, and this is really what we got out of. Some of these is we may have some information about what's going to happen on the corner.
So there's a way to say to that person, listen to my man. Do me a favor just for tonight. Can you roll instead of an excuse my language, you'll get the fuck off the corner. There's a way to talk to people respectfully. And we really at Sayre got that conversation going, that maybe when we act, when we ask politely and respectfully, we're actually looking out for you.
You know what I mean?
Brandon Chastang: [00:29:05] Yeah. A lot of the, a lot of people growing up, including myself, I felt like. Police officers were all terrible. That's the game plan. All you want to do is just lock us up. You don't want to show us the way. You want to take control of us, but what you guys have done for those who are now just told that you stated that you started the GED program.
I've never heard of that from police officers?
Captain Gillepsie: [00:29:43] No, I mean,
Brandon Chastang: [00:29:44] I've never heard of that.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:29:46] You know, I really went with a mindset of problem solving. How can we prevent, I would say this all the time. You've heard me say it. If we can prevent you from making a wrong decision, that's a million times better than making the quote unquote good arrest.
Right.
It really is.
Brandon Chastang: [00:30:01] There wasn't a case where kid, you guys gave a kid an opportunity to get their GED. And if you do that, that we can, was that something like you dropped charges or something like that?
Captain Gillepsie: [00:30:16] We didn't get involved in that, but the district attorney's office, definitely gets involved and things like that.
And I think that that's important in an overall big picture of the criminal justice system that. You know, if somebody makes a mistake, you know, and there's certain crimes that you really have to be held accountable for it. But if somebody makes a mistake and then can prove through their track record, that they're turning themselves around, I do think that there should be redemption or helping them with their expungement and things of that nature.
Brandon Chastang: [00:30:47] You know, a lot of people don't know, right. We were on at CNN together.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:30:53] Well, you were on CNN. I was standing in the background
Brandon Chastang: [00:30:56] And again, for people that don't know, like I work here and the hand, what Captain Gillespie, or trying to bridge the gap, you know, see what we could do to stop the homicides and what different ways we could come up with to help our community and being on CNN.
It was like, you know, For those who don't know we were doing the, you guys were doing the, Karaoke with a cop or 52nd and Market and Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, West Philly, to be exact. That was dope. How did you feel about that? Like, That was like super dope because that really brought the community out.
Like a lot of people were like changing their perspective on police officers at that time.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:31:49] So, I'm honestly, I'm really glad you brought that up, you know, I've taught, I've got some grief internally from that and I don't have a problem saying it, you know what I mean? but again, the best ideas come from these young officers.
That grew up in the neighborhood and the people that work and live in the neighborhood. So I can't take credit for it. I'm certainly gonna take a little bit, you know what I mean? Cause I'm the one that says, Oh yeah, you can do it. But listen again, 52nd and market, if you know the area, you know, it's, there's a lot of younger people.
Just not making right decisions, you know, some drug sales going on. And I thought, all right, how can we, what's the worst time that this goes on, right? Friday afternoons. I could put a cop out there to sit in a car to guard the area and, you know, play on her phone and all that stuff. Or we could try something else.
And Officer Bachman and Harris, they started off, we combined the resources that we built, whether it was, you Sayre. We turned that area almost into a concert, right? So the seniors. I can't tell you how many seniors have contacted us and said, listen, I live right around the corner. I get off the bus here.
They would stop. They would sing, they would dance. They would listen for those two hours or three hours, 52nd and Market became the Motown corner. And I don't have a problem with that. And I think that's a lot better way to police than put a cop in a car. To check on the area. I mean, that's just me.
Brandon Chastang: [00:33:23] Let's see.
That's why this is why I say, you know, I'm not just going to just say all police officers are bad
Captain Gillepsie: [00:33:31] No, they're not,
Brandon Chastang: [00:33:33] You don't see things like this. You don't get these type of. Events like this, where it's like you said, well, I could just put a police officer on the corner and let the bot answer or let people be a little afraid because it's a cop car right there.
And, but you're engaging.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:33:51] Yeah. But here's the thing. Right? So the ones that came up with that idea or the younger officers that grew up in West Philly, You know what I mean? They're three, four, and the ones that really got engaged
Brandon Chastang: [00:34:02] Bachman is from West Philly,
Captain Gillepsie: [00:34:03] he's from West Philly, officer Harris is from West Philly.
And I do forget, and I apologize the officers from the 16th district, right on the other side of Market street, they came and helped build this real big. So this is young people happened to be police officers from West Philly. Wanting to give back, you know what I mean?
Brandon Chastang: [00:34:25] Yeah. So what do you have planned in the future to help build the bridge the gap?
You know, bridging the gap with the community and to help break down these homicides because the homicides are ridiculous for people that don't know Philadelphia, that don't have Gangs, right? Maybe like red and blue. Like we don't have Crips and Bloods. And if there are Crips and Bloods out there, I've never seen them.
Like they probably joking around or something like that, but it's no real co cripping blooded, all that type of stuff right there. These are individuals that are like doing their own thing. So I do. I don't know if it started, but the, the door, something with the police.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:35:17] Yeah. So. There's a few, there's a few things, you know, what, what makes Philadelphia unique, right?
Is that you always hear Philadelphia is a city of neighborhoods, right? And it is, if you go to East division, the Kensington area, lotta lotta heroin drug organizations, that's, that's a little different than what's going on in West Philadelphia. It's a little different than what's going on in North Philadelphia.
So each district area, the city is treated a little bit different and every captain in the city really that has a patrol district, you know, gears there, their strategy based off of that now for us. Yeah. I agree wholeheartedly with you, right? There's you hear North side, South side, right? Really, these are just a bunch of young people that say they're part of this group that are just making poor life decisions.
You know, so there, there is, you have to talk about it. There's an enforcement part, right. You know, we know certain areas that are hotter than others, you know, 60th and Market. You know, we know that, certain people get out of jail and that they post on open social media, what they're going to do. And there is an enforcement side to that.
And I do have to say with that side, you know, you get caught with a gun three times and two years. Five times in three years, you, you might need to go chill out for a little bit to save your own life. Cause you're carrying it for two reasons, right? One is protection for yourself, or you're trying to do something.
And for those individuals, they might have crossed that line at this point where we could really try and bring them back. They just have to go chill out. and, and, and jail is just part of that for most people, I believe. It's employment. And you know, you hear ahowpolice shouldn't be doing job fairs. I disagree.
All right, we can, we are the biggest face of city government. You know, we have the most resources we can get anywhere 30 seconds. If we can bring a job fair to Christy rec, which we will in the fall.
Brandon Chastang: [00:37:19] Christy rec is located in West Philadelphia. By the way.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:37:23] We can bring job fairs. If we can bring in the mental health advocates even like yourself, if we can bring in violence interrupters to say, listen, we're going to Matt Gillespie. He might be somebody that might be susceptible to gun violence or committing a gun violence act. Let's see if we can get in touch through back channels to him or his guardian or parents or grandma and have a conversation.
We'll be surprised. I'm not going to say how many or who. There was a lot of young people that. We're worried about that. We talked to behind the scenes and, you know, obviously I respect their privacy and everything. deescalation crisis intervention training, there was a new program called the group violence initiative, out of the mayor's office of violence prevention, which is just that it's a two-part message go to the house or wherever the person may be say, listen, we know you were involved in these things.
Stop. And if you stop, this is what we can provide for you. You know, job training, you know, I would like a little more mental health because we know the trauma involved with some of these people. and then we're going to continue to just our, our monthly things that we do. I mean, basketball clinics, we're foot, we're working on a football clinic at Boys Latin.
We're working on things positive to occupy the time for these young people.
Brandon Chastang: [00:38:41] You know, I mean, As far fetched, but I would want to do mental health with police officers, you know, where, you know, we engage in conversation like for those who are willing to talk, right. Both parties, the citizens and the police officer.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:38:59] Yeah. I mean, I think a great idea. So it's two parts. I think, I think we have to deal with the officer's mental health on a, on a, not just when the quote unquote traumatic incident of police shooting. What about when a cop goes to the domestic incident and sees just people arguing that it could trigger something, but we also have to have the incident where we have community members like yourself at the table with the officers.
I would love to sit at a table with all the young kids. And I hope they're listening to young kids from 500 South 52nd street. I would love to because they all know when it's just me and them. One-on-one. They're very respectful
Brandon Chastang: [00:39:36] and it's a different type
Captain Gillepsie: [00:39:37] different type of conversation.
Brandon Chastang: [00:39:41] Already know how your kids do it by the way.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:39:44] Good. They're very excited. back to school, my daughter is 11. She just got a phone. Yep. Yup. So I see, I'm looking to see, she won't even text me, but that's all right. That's okay.
Brandon Chastang: [00:39:56] Your wife,
Captain Gillepsie: [00:39:57] she is wonderful.
Brandon Chastang: [00:39:58] Your wife,
Captain Gillepsie: [00:40:00] Liz, Liz. Wonderful. Doing all speaking of employment, what she does, right. She gets people jobs.
Oh, that is the education and employment. We could fight all the crime and stop people and get guns off the street, education and employment,
Brandon Chastang: [00:40:14] you know, for those who are just listening, right. Captain Gillespie is in full uniform right then for uniform. But I love it. I say your Cap, when you come up here man, dress it for uniform and say anything.
That has to do with police and what he's doing, he's going to be a full uniform and I love it. And where our practices, social distancing, you know, we got our big screen separating us and, this podcast is called Self-Inventory. Okay. So Cap you have, so besides all the other things that you do, I know you got a lot going on town hall beat is you eat it with families.
Listen, Captain Gillespie eats with the families and the community like, like regular dinners. Do y'all get that like, this is, this is something that. We don't hear police officers talk about it.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:41:17] Well, I do like to eat, so I will say that. Right. So that's fine. You know what I mean? I will, I do like to eat, but yes, yes I do.
And some of the best cooking I've ever had is in West Philadelphia.
Brandon Chastang: [00:41:27] Talk about it, talk about it. So what else do you have going on? But I know you got to patch,
Captain Gillepsie: [00:41:32] right? So yeah, I mean, I was so excited to be on this one because I really got into podcasts because you can hear so many different viewpoints and things.
We have our 18th district podcasts, which is myself, also boggling and Harris. you know, it's on all the platforms, Apple, Spotify offer that. I kinda got into doing podcasts myself after the 52nd street riot. You know what I mean? I, that really affected me. That really upset me because I spend more time in West Philly than I do in my own neighborhood, in my own house.
And one of the images that stuck in my head was a, you know, a more senior woman in the middle of the intersection saying, please don't do this to everybody out there. But then after that, I know I'm drying out the story, but after the riots, the next day, the day after, and you were out there. Everybody came together.
You know what I mean? I didn't, there was a few people that didn't like the police and there were some officers that were, you know, had the tensions up, but I have gotten more thank you's and more we appreciate the police. We want good policing, but we appreciate the police after that. And I'm like, damn, there's a lot of good stories going on.
In West Philly that no one's talking about. So I started as a, as a hobby, my own podcasts called Philly Unheard. It's on Instagram. You can connect it all through there. if anybody's in West Philly or Philadelphia, I would love to hear from you send me a DM and, and to highlight the good stuff that's going on because I'm telling you right now, there's literally hundreds of people in the 18th district that are doing stuff behind the scenes to improve their neighborhood.
And nobody knows about it.
Brandon Chastang: [00:43:12] So Captain Gillespie is saying you're more than welcome to join the podcast.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:43:18] Yes, absolutely. I would. I would love to talk to you cause it's another way to bridge that gap. Let's talk about, let's talk about stuff be on my podcast. Let me hear what you're doing or let's have difficult conversations.
Brandon Chastang: [00:43:30] See, this is why I'm happy that you came on the show because okay, you are white. And a lot of people feel like, well, white people don't care where I caught most of my situations were black police officers, discrepancies and stuff. Like, I just want us all to understand that ignorance is bliss. And I grew up saying fuck 12. I grew up saying they're all hateful. They're all be none of us care about us.
I am happy that you are doing a lot for you to tell that you have a podcast and you're welcome. And people in the community to come, on the podcasts. This is not crime related issues. This would not like
Captain Gillepsie: [00:44:24] not directly,
not directly.
Brandon Chastang: [00:44:25] This is bridging the gap.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:44:27] Exactly. Wow, exactly. You know, some of the things we've talked about already, you know, I had, I don't want to say what schools, but two football coaches, public schools expressing. You know what they're doing in the COVID to keep literally literally keep their players alive. And one has lost a player during this time that gun violence, you know,
Brandon Chastang: [00:44:49] Oh, victims of gun violence.
So this is why I hate the fact that we're losing so many of our children.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:44:58] I mean, listen, I have to say it. I have the statistics right here, in. 2020, the exact number it's about almost over a hundred young people, have been shot or killed under the ages of 18. You know, it's, I haven't seen it like this in my time.
I know everybody in city, government, private people like yourself are doing everything they can, you know, so it's not for lack of trying, but this, this it's a crisis and it has to be handled that way.
Brandon Chastang: [00:45:35] Today is the day for the verdict, right?
For Breonna Taylors verdict
This, I don't know what's going to happen? You guys prepared?
Captain Gillepsie: [00:45:49] So I was telling the engineer, on our break we're we're literally, this is real time. So right now it's what, 12:37. We are getting prepared. The city is, for, you know, Peaceful. That's really what we want. If you're hearing me peaceful, protesting, you know, you lose your legitimacy when you start, you know, destruction and injuries and stuff like that.
but we are getting prepared. Yes.
Brandon Chastang: [00:46:15] Wow. I don't even know what to say. I don't know what to say, because if the verdict turns out that innocent.
This is not going to make me hate police officers. This is going to make the hate the system and white supremacy racism, but not my friend.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:46:40] Yeah. And listen, that's a big thing for you to say on two fronts. One, it's just important to say that, right. You can differentiate, but you have, you have a big social media following, right?
You have influential people follow you and you have a big voice in the community. Right. So. When you speak people, listen again, they may not agree, but I know, I know that if something was going down on 60th street and I called you and you came out. Whatever could have happened, probably wouldn't because you would say, y'all everybody listen, chill out.
It's not the time to do that. Correct. And, and departments across the country, have, and really do need to tap into, you know the people, men and women like yourself. And I know in Philadelphia, at least in West Philly, we really do do that. And I know other captains in the city are doing that stuff.
Brandon Chastang: [00:47:30] I, you know, I hope justice gets served. you know, that's just me,
you know, that's all I can say,
Captain Gillepsie: [00:47:50] you know? I was telling the officer that drove me down. I didn't even realize that a police officer was shot in this incident. Last night. I haven't, we've been so busy here in Philadelphia. I haven't paid much attention. I knew that the F you know, the bare minimum that Breonna lost her life, the officers were serving a warrant.
but I didn't realize that the officer, an officer was shot. so I'm not other than those bare minimums, you know, no knock warrants, you know, I'm not really brought up to speed, but will I, what I will say is that whether it's this, whether it's Eric Gardner, New York, George Floyd, anywhere else.
What, what really upsets me even more is if positive change is not made. Right. Right. Whether it be reform in a positive way, in an inappropriate way, both police department, wise laws, systematic stuff, schools,
Brandon Chastang: [00:48:46] schools,
Captain Gillepsie: [00:48:47] schools, you know, I don't want to say the school, you know, you know, I had a really disheartening conversation with.
The first school I was in and a person in that school. And I'm like, wow, you're, you're a leader in the school and this is what you think. I mean, this, this is, this is tough. Right? That's we got to change things at a, at a, at the ground level. I do believe in better training standards for police. We work hard to do that.
I know commissioner outlaw is really striving and pushing for these things, you know? and you hear these words all the time, but transparency like transparency is key. The minute you start hiding things or keeping things or keeping things secret, You know, that's, in terms of investigations, you know, that's when you can kind of run into trouble.
Now there's certain things that you can bring out. and maybe that might've been the case with the Breonna Taylor. I know they had a grand jury, which in some cases you can't. You can't the public won't know until 1:15.
Brandon Chastang: [00:49:50] So with that be said Self-Inventory is the day with the podcast, right? Yep. I have two years, eight months clean and like two days
Captain Gillepsie: [00:50:01] Congratulations.
Brandon Chastang: [00:50:04] And through bought two years, eight months clean. I had to do with Self-Inventory and this is why I call it the pocket. Okay. Self-Inventory because I had to reconstruct myself, had to figure out who I am as a person. And I work on the things that I can do. That's better than I was doing before. What's yours, what's yours?
How could you change your ways about yourself and do things better as an individual and as the Captain?
Captain Gillepsie: [00:50:43] Wow, man, that's a, that is, that is a great question. Cause they're intertwined. Right? cause you know, Paid to deal with people and be a human and have empathy. So, you know, I would really say my wife would say, don't be as grumpy.
You know what I mean? Don't be a stubborn, I've tried as I've gotten older to like really let things go, you know, don't let things bother me. And that ties into work when people say things either about you or your profession, that aren't true. just let it slide off your back. what I have professionally, I would say.
Better time management because my time management having better time management will let me help more people use the community more, you know, really engaged with there's only so much time in the day and really do see if we can, the gun violence really keeps me up at night. It does. I would like to see more intervention early on, and I don't necessarily know how to do that or have the right answer for it now. But that would be professionally more intervention early on. And 2020 is just crazy, man. I, I just, I want everyone to just, I think everybody just treat each other. Right. You know, and I always ask myself, am I treating this person right?
Am I treating that person right? Am I being fair? You know? And that's a self-reflection thing I do every day.
Brandon Chastang: [00:52:10] Wow.
That's a major Self-Inventory, let's give a shout out to capita of Gillespie for covered through self vivid story, the podcast. This is our first guest.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:52:22] You know, you have to have me back on though.
That's the whole thing that was in the contract I gave you. listen, I want to, I want to end with this, if this is where we're ending, you know, There's things that need to be fixed with police. Absolutely. But there's a lot of good cops, some of the best I've ever seen work in the 18th. There's a homicide rate that is out of control in the city of Philadelphia, Southwest police division run by Inspector, Wood Captain Dressel, Captain Brown, Captain McKeever and I, you know, we really do fight every day, but some of the best. People most dedicated to their families and their community live in West Philadelphia. People that could have moved away and said, you know what, no, I'm not moving away. I'm going to live on Chestnut Walnut, Ludlow, whatever, and try to help this out.
So when you hear that, Oh, you know, this neighborhood is, has this problem. That's just one small piece to these great neighborhoods. You know what I mean? And I'm just proud and honored that I was, you know, Put in this position to work and meet people like yourself.
Brandon Chastang: [00:53:24] Thank you so much. So happy to meet you as well.
And that's it, man. Thanks for coming out. Thanks for listening.
Captain Gillepsie: [00:53:31] Thank you. Thank you.
Brandon Chastang: [00:53:33] Self-Inventory. We out
Self-Inventory is a podcast produced by Brandon Chastang, his Studio D podcast production. You can listen anywhere. You get your podcasts. If you'd like to support the show, please subscribe, leave a review and tell everyone you know about Self-Inventory.